What does $35 for a perpetual license mean?

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What does $35 for a perpetual license mean?

Postby Greg.Tillman » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:19 pm

Perpetual licensing means that the version of Reflector you purchase is yours to keep forever. You will also get any minor upgrades for free. For example if you purchase version 7.0 for $35 you will get version 7.1,7.2,7.3.... for free but not version 8.0.
Last edited by Greg.Tillman on Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What does $35 for a perpetual license mean?

Postby RichardD » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:38 pm

Greg.Tillman wrote:Perpetual licensing means that the version of Reflector you purchase is yours to keep forever.


I'll give that as much credence as it deserves - i.e. none.

Every time someone has voiced concerns that RedGate would start using the forced update feature to screw their end-users for money, we were told that it was Lutz who added the feature, and to stop being so paranoid.

Well guess what? That was a lie. From March 2011, anyone who wants to use Reflector - even if they're happy will v6 - will have to pay for it.

In March 2012, when v8 comes along, we'll probably find that v7 stops working and now we've got to pay $100 to upgrade.

Just because we're paranoid, it doesn't mean that RedGate aren't a bunch of evil lying scumbags! :evil:
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Postby deesnider » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:18 pm

V6 should be unlocked with no 6 mo. limit and given a perpetual license (w/ no support).
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Why buy it?

Postby deadlyviper » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:56 pm

Then why did you buy it?! You cannot come across as "oh poor us, we need to charge you because we utterly misjudged how to make it commercially successful".

Red-gate. Fail. You're liars. I hate you.
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Re: What does $35 for a perpetual license mean?

Postby qstarin » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:07 pm

Greg.Tillman wrote:Perpetual licensing means that the version of Reflector you purchase is yours to keep forever. You will also get any minor upgrades for free. For example if you purchase version 7.0 for $35 you will get version 7.1,7.2,7.3.... for free but not version 8.0.



In case you folks didn't notice. This is the norm.

If I pay for a version of software, I own the right to use it. Indefinitely. Period.

Similarly, if I am given a version of software, I expect I was given the right to use it. Indefinitely. Period.

Now you want to take it back? I can recall some choice derogatory terms from my childhood used to describe such behavior.
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Postby Kyralessa » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:26 am

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

But to translate, apparently "perpetual licensing" doesn't mean anything. Or perhaps it merely means "not time-bombed". It certainly doesn't mean what any other company would mean if they said "perpetual license".

But then, you guys seem to have trouble with the meaning of words like "commitment" and "free" too, so I guess this shouldn't come as a shock.
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No Reason to Trust

Postby sosiosh » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:33 am

Red Gate has completely lost their credibility, and there is no reason to trust them that they won't pull another semantic trick around the words "perpetual license" when they need more money than they anticipated.

This is bait-and-switch, and now there is no way to know if what they are saying is genuine or not, OR, more to the point, whether they mean it this time, but someone in the future will revise history and make the original person making the promise look like a fool.

That is what I think they have done - they have made the person that said Reflector will remain free look like a fool.
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Postby trevor.doorley » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:04 am

To give it real credibility I think the statement should be changed from

"Perpetual licensing means that the version of Reflector you purchase is yours to keep forever. You will also get any minor upgrades for free"

to

"We promise that perpetual licensing means that the version of Reflector you purchase is yours to keep forever. You will also get any minor upgrades for free."

Doing so would help avoid future misinterpreted intentions and/or commitments.

Or would it......

:D
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Re: What does $35 for a perpetual license mean?

Postby AvonWyss » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:14 pm

Greg.Tillman wrote:You will also get any minor upgrades for free.

Simple Talk - The Future of Reflector wrote:Red Gate will continue to offer the tool for free to the community.

Am I the only one noticing a very similar wording? If the second quote was not a promise, what is the first quote then? And if the first quote is indeed a promise, what does that make the second one?
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Postby jeremy.parsons » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:01 pm

Reflector just wasn't licensed that way before. Versions always expired and you needed to go and update. (Which has seriously annoyed some people over the past ten years.)

With v7, as Greg said, we're ending that. 'Perpetual license' is just a common term: you buy a license to use the software, and the license never expires. Which is pretty standard - certainly for Red Gate products.
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Postby NickCraver » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:38 pm

jeremy.parsons wrote: 'Perpetual license' is just a common term: you buy a license to use the software, and the license never expires. Which is pretty standard - certainly for Red Gate products.


"For free" is an even more common term. You guys seem to have missed the point here, nothing you say can be trusted now, you've broken that.

Think of it from the developer's point of view, why should I trust your statement? Because other Red Gate products have historically been licensed that way? Reflector has historically been free. More important, should I trust it because you said so? well that one's out too, you broke that trust when you went back on your word about keeping it free.

If you want to make it commercially viable that's fine, improve it, do whatever you want to make a product people will pay for. But let's be clear here, that's not what you're doing, you're removing the time-bomb after people pay the ransom for the upgrade.

Face it, you guys made a mistake, you took reflector and added "features" many people didn't want, if they did, we wouldn't be here, because people would actually be paying for the pro version that exists now. Obviously not enough people are doing that, so you're using the time-bomb to ransom sales.

Was the time-bomb feature always there? Yes. Was this ever Lutz's intent? No.

I can only speak for me personally, but if you ever have a chance of me using or buying a Red Gate product again, you'll do the right thing and remove the time-bomb from v6 (strip out all the pro "features" while you're at it) and let people choose.
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Time for an Open Source version

Postby kuwarii » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:40 am

This is a sad day indeed. Time for a new Open Source version of Reflector!!!
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